I'm coming out. In a couple of days I'll be 48 years old. I'm closing in on nearly 50years of hiding, trying to please people, keeping my head down, and trying to stay out of trouble. I just can't do it anymore. Joining the Fatoshpere and reading the blogs of so many courageous, strong and intelligent people...mostly women...has given me courage. I hope you won't hate me when I say what I'm going to say. But there I am trying to please again. Hate me if you want.
This isn't easy. Ok. Deep breath. Here goes. I am not a feminist. I am a conservative. I am a traditional Christian who believes in Jesus, miracles and has read my Bible through two times. There...it is said. It is done. I'm not going to go into a lot of detail about my beliefs and I am not going to apologize for them. I can't. I won't. It is simply who I am.
What I will say is that I was born in 1960 to a Democrat dad and a Republican mom. I registered to vote as soon as I turned 18...as a Democrat. I was one of two Democrats in my entire class at school. How I became a conservative Republican is a very long story I won't go into right now. I will say that it is related to my faith and that my faith has deep roots in a 60's southern Bible Belt culture. I strayed so far from those roots at one point that for several years I considered myself an atheist. It was a dark time in my life, a time when I felt alone and abandoned by everybody, including and especially God. I eventually turned back to my roots and made peace with my God. I returned to those roots almost exactly 19 years ago.
I've been wrestling for a good while now with the fact that I have been trying to please the mostly feminist Fatosphere by hiding my beliefs. I don't think the Fatosphere is where I need to be talking about my beliefs, but I sure don't want to feel like I have to hide them. Plus, I have been hiding my blog from my Christian friends because I have left God completely out of it. It has become increasingly uncomfortable for me to do both.
I'm working on accepting ALL of myself exactly as I am...inside and out. That includes accepting and not being ashamed of my fat self and accepting and not being ashamed of my Christian self. It is not easy being fat in this society. It is not easy being a Christian in this society. It is accepted and popular to bash both. I want to be a good person. I want to be fair and loving and kind. I want to say what I mean and mean what I say. I want to think clearly. I don't want to be overbearing about my beliefs, but neither do I want to be ashamed of them....any of them.
A couple of other things about Christian and conservative bashing....I don't like it. Why would I? It stings when I read it or hear it. I don't take my beliefs lightly and didn't come to them without much thought and questioning. No organized group poured beliefs into my empty head. I formed my beliefs over many years and they are rooted in my history and culture. It hurts to have something that is so much a part of who I am bashed.
About cussing. I don't do much of it. Yes, part of the reason is due to my spiritual beliefs. Mostly I don't do it because my parents did. Oh, they didn't cuss all day every day or anything. It is just that when they did cuss, it was done in a rage. It scared me when they cussed. It sounded like gunshots going off in my head. I felt assaulted. I hated it. I don't do it because I don't want to make others feel the way I felt back then. Every now and then I fail. (I will most likely fail EVERY time the question arises of should a person leave their mate due to weight gain).
Another thing about cussing. I admit that it bothers me when folks feel the need to use God's name as a curse word. It also bothers me when it is used in other degrading ways like "Jesus can suck it". I like Kathy Griffin and watch her sometimes. She cracks me up. I don't know. Maybe as a Christian I shouldn't watch her, but I do. I'll have to think about that one. Sure don't want to go to Hell over a few jokes. Anyhow, I would never say anything as disrespectful as "Suck it Allah" or "Suck it Mother Teresa" or "Suck it Buddha".
Why does everybody hate Jesus so much? He was the one man that stood up for the adulterous woman so that she wouldn't be stoned to death by the rest of the community. He was friends with a prostitute and didn't take advantage of her. Good grief, give the Man a break. And try to have a little respect for other people's beliefs by considering not degrading their God. You don't have to believe in their God or like their beliefs but good grief, how about a tiny little bit of respect.
One last thing about cussing. There is a lot of cussing that goes on in the Fatosphere. I am generally not offended in the least by it. I am not a prude. I enjoy a good joke and some rowdy humor. I can be a really rowdy sort sometimes. I understand we are discussing things that are near and dear to our hearts...that we feel passionately about. Not everybody was traumatized by cussing like I was as a child. Have at it. Cuss. It really doesn't bother me unless you degrade my God or are cussing at me personally. I'm not going to quit the Fatosphere due to some cussing and political differences. I'm not even going to quit if somebody chooses to degrade my God or cuss at me personally. I just hope the Fatosphere can tolerate a conservative....a fat, Christian, Jesus loving, out of the closet conservative...me.
This isn't easy. Ok. Deep breath. Here goes. I am not a feminist. I am a conservative. I am a traditional Christian who believes in Jesus, miracles and has read my Bible through two times. There...it is said. It is done. I'm not going to go into a lot of detail about my beliefs and I am not going to apologize for them. I can't. I won't. It is simply who I am.
What I will say is that I was born in 1960 to a Democrat dad and a Republican mom. I registered to vote as soon as I turned 18...as a Democrat. I was one of two Democrats in my entire class at school. How I became a conservative Republican is a very long story I won't go into right now. I will say that it is related to my faith and that my faith has deep roots in a 60's southern Bible Belt culture. I strayed so far from those roots at one point that for several years I considered myself an atheist. It was a dark time in my life, a time when I felt alone and abandoned by everybody, including and especially God. I eventually turned back to my roots and made peace with my God. I returned to those roots almost exactly 19 years ago.
I've been wrestling for a good while now with the fact that I have been trying to please the mostly feminist Fatosphere by hiding my beliefs. I don't think the Fatosphere is where I need to be talking about my beliefs, but I sure don't want to feel like I have to hide them. Plus, I have been hiding my blog from my Christian friends because I have left God completely out of it. It has become increasingly uncomfortable for me to do both.
I'm working on accepting ALL of myself exactly as I am...inside and out. That includes accepting and not being ashamed of my fat self and accepting and not being ashamed of my Christian self. It is not easy being fat in this society. It is not easy being a Christian in this society. It is accepted and popular to bash both. I want to be a good person. I want to be fair and loving and kind. I want to say what I mean and mean what I say. I want to think clearly. I don't want to be overbearing about my beliefs, but neither do I want to be ashamed of them....any of them.
A couple of other things about Christian and conservative bashing....I don't like it. Why would I? It stings when I read it or hear it. I don't take my beliefs lightly and didn't come to them without much thought and questioning. No organized group poured beliefs into my empty head. I formed my beliefs over many years and they are rooted in my history and culture. It hurts to have something that is so much a part of who I am bashed.
About cussing. I don't do much of it. Yes, part of the reason is due to my spiritual beliefs. Mostly I don't do it because my parents did. Oh, they didn't cuss all day every day or anything. It is just that when they did cuss, it was done in a rage. It scared me when they cussed. It sounded like gunshots going off in my head. I felt assaulted. I hated it. I don't do it because I don't want to make others feel the way I felt back then. Every now and then I fail. (I will most likely fail EVERY time the question arises of should a person leave their mate due to weight gain).
Another thing about cussing. I admit that it bothers me when folks feel the need to use God's name as a curse word. It also bothers me when it is used in other degrading ways like "Jesus can suck it". I like Kathy Griffin and watch her sometimes. She cracks me up. I don't know. Maybe as a Christian I shouldn't watch her, but I do. I'll have to think about that one. Sure don't want to go to Hell over a few jokes. Anyhow, I would never say anything as disrespectful as "Suck it Allah" or "Suck it Mother Teresa" or "Suck it Buddha".
Why does everybody hate Jesus so much? He was the one man that stood up for the adulterous woman so that she wouldn't be stoned to death by the rest of the community. He was friends with a prostitute and didn't take advantage of her. Good grief, give the Man a break. And try to have a little respect for other people's beliefs by considering not degrading their God. You don't have to believe in their God or like their beliefs but good grief, how about a tiny little bit of respect.
One last thing about cussing. There is a lot of cussing that goes on in the Fatosphere. I am generally not offended in the least by it. I am not a prude. I enjoy a good joke and some rowdy humor. I can be a really rowdy sort sometimes. I understand we are discussing things that are near and dear to our hearts...that we feel passionately about. Not everybody was traumatized by cussing like I was as a child. Have at it. Cuss. It really doesn't bother me unless you degrade my God or are cussing at me personally. I'm not going to quit the Fatosphere due to some cussing and political differences. I'm not even going to quit if somebody chooses to degrade my God or cuss at me personally. I just hope the Fatosphere can tolerate a conservative....a fat, Christian, Jesus loving, out of the closet conservative...me.
41 comments:
Good for you. It's never a mistake to be yourself. You have nothing to apologize for,or be ashamed of.
What you believe in is your personal choice and no one has a right to make fun of it, degrade it, or say that you don't have a right to believe it even if they don't agree with you. And that goes for FA/feminism/Christianity/politics/whatever. Even if one doesn't agree with everything another person believes in, there are usually some points where the 2 can agree. And even if they don't agree, if one reads with an open mind, they may, at the very least, come away with something to think about, a new viewpoint they had never considered.
So, even though I don't consider myself a Christian, I do consider myself a moral person and don't think I have a right to believe that everyone in the FAM has to believe exactly the way I do. If we can't allow for diversity in religion, politics, feminism, etc, how on earth are we going to get a diversity of body sizes to be an acceptable, every-day thing?
So, rock on in your own inimitable way. I, for one, will keep reading what you have to say and defending your right to say it and believe it.
I may disagree with some of the specifics you mentioned, but speaking for myself, that is no reason to not include you.
In a way, personal beliefs shouldn't even enter into it. Your personal beliefs don't necessarily have anything to do with your stance on FA (I do realize there are exceptions to that; I mean generally).
Now if you suddenly started talking about the latest diet craze? Yeah... then it'd be time we had some words. But the rest of it? Doesn't really matter, personally.
I just... have to say something about privilege here, and I hope you can differentiate this from bashing, because that's not at all my intent.
You write, "It is not easy being a Christian in this society."
And... reading this as a Jewish fat woman, it's a bit like hearing a woman wearing a size 2 saying, "It's not easy being a thin woman in this society."
Because about 75% of Americans are Christian. We've never had a non-Christian president in the US, ever (and I think it's unlikely we ever will). My children, being Jewish, are probably completely unelectable. The Republican Party attempted to link Obama to Islam in order to smear him. Muslims I work with and teach everyday are currently experiencing massive prejudice as non-Muslims regularly assume that they might be terrorists, simply on the basis of their religion.
So reading that it's hard to be Christian... it's a bit like seeing a thin woman say it's hard to be thin without acknowledging the incredible amounts of privilege thin women take for granted, every single day.
And yes, you may argue that you're some particular kind of Christian that you think is in the minority. But about 40% of people in the US are self-described "evangelical Christians." You may not notice the way that the US is overwhelmingly Christian, but hey--that's privilege at work.
So I guess I'm saying that I get where it might be weird for you that many of the women in the Fatosphere aren't self-identified conservative Christians, but that doesn't mean that the Fatosphere isn't still overwhelmingly a Christian space.
And the fact that some of the most popular Fatosphere blogs swing left doesn't mean that the Fatosphere hates Jesus, or disrespects Christians. It's just that feminism has done an enormous amount to theorize and create the language we take for granted when we critique and question fat-phobia (and without it, I really don't think there wouldn't be a Fatosphere.)
So--while I totally support your being true to yourself and your faith and politics, I think that it's unnecessary to ignore Christian privilege to do so.
Why does everybody hate Jesus so much? He was the one man that stood up for the adulterous woman so that she wouldn't be stoned to death by the rest of the community. He was friends with a prostitute and didn't take advantage of her. Good grief, give the Man a break. And try to have a little respect for other people's beliefs by considering not degrading their God. You don't have to believe in their God or like their beliefs but good grief, how about a tiny little bit of respect.
You might want to consider asking this question of some of the hard-right-wingers who are the noisiest co-optors of your religion, although I firmly believe they do not represent the majority of Christians. They are the ones who, if they lived in his time, would be right there stringing him up for being a dirty hippie, caring more about the poor than about the money-changers, forgiving your enemies rather than going to war with them, etc.
It is they for whom Kathy Griffin et al say things like, "Suck it, Jesus." Griffin was merely blasting the kind of hypocrisy that leads some vocal Christians (although, again, I don't believe they represent the majority) that leads people like sports figures to claim that Jesus or God made them win the tournament, but never get around to saying that Jesus or God must have favored their opponents when they lose.
Andee (Meowser)
I am proud of you! I know as a christian myself that that viewpoint is often discouraged or looked down upon on many blogs and in discussions. I have found myself at times not sharing my feelings on a subject out of fear because I know that it isn't welcome and will probably be scoffed at. That has often left me feeling frustrated at myself because in all reality I am NOT ashamed of my beliefs and the relationship I have with Jesus is very important to me, but I just hate inviting disdain or rude comments.
The truth is though that I AM a fat girl who is also a Christian, I wouldn't call myself a feminist I just believe that people should ALL be treated with respect and fairness regardless of differences they might have. I often get a little upset because I would never tear apart someone elses beliefs and am very accepting of people and I don't understand why just because I have a different belief system that it should be ok for others to do that to me.
It is nice though to know that there ARE others out there and I support you totally! Tank you for this it has inspired me to be more vocal and true to myself and my Jesus :)
I have second what Miriam said. I, too, don't think you need to apologize for who and what you are; I applaud your decision to be true to your identity.
However, I couldn't agree more with Miriam's analogy. To me, part of stepping up and claiming one's identity is acknowledging the priviledge that may come with it.
Like the others have mentioned, I don't think there is anything wrong with or anything to be ashamed of with your religion or beliefs.
I do however also agree that the line "It is not easy being a Christian in this society." really struck me as almost laughable. Not that it is a laughing matter, I just have never heard someone say things like that before. Where I live, and I believe in the majority of at least rural areas in North America, Christianity is predominant. Even if they do not practice a specific Christian religion, many people still celebrate Christian holidays and are more likely to disparage other religions than Christianity.
That being said, once again I don't think you should feel any shame in your religion or feel that you need to hide it and it is disheartening that you felt that way in this group.
Another comment on the subject of privilege, and Christianity. As an outspoken Athiest (with nothing against you, or your religion, other than the fact that I don't believe in it), I also find that particular line laughable. Fighting for a secular government gets harder and harder as the far-right keeps trying to tell me that they know my faith (and my basic human rights, and my body!) better than I do. It's hard to stomach. I can imagine that non-Christian religious folks living in this country right now feel the same pressure. I absolutely second everything Miriam said.
It's great that you're finding the confidence to "come out" in this way, and I hope that you stick around the Fatosphere, because I enjoy your posts.
My personal experience has been that it is hard to be a Christian in this society.
Just like I have been skinny and know how much better I was treated as a skinny person, I have been a non-Christian atheist and liberal and know how much better I was treated then.
I lost dear friends over my Christianity. I didn't quit loving them or wanting to be around them. They could no longer be around me. I wasn't preaching to them. I simply told them about the experience I had and how meaningful and significant it was to me. They were my friends. I thought I could share important stuff with them.
One friend, a dear gay man, dropped me the very instant I told him. I was heartbroken.
Another good female friend even screamed at me about my Christianity and told me how pathetic I was.
A Jewish friend I had just quit calling.
None of that was easy. It was devastating. I have never had such friends again. I am actually quite lonely as a Christian.
You have to understand that I was very liberal. I still didn't call myself a feminist, but most people would have called me one. When I started going back to church I was writing tithes on Greenpeace checks. I was as liberal as they came. I was just never comfortable calling myself a feminist for some reason.
When I was in graduate school for social work, there were two Christian girls. Boy did they get it. They were shunned and ignored and given dirty looks and eye rolls all the time.
These girls got absolutely no respect. And these were very quiet nice girls... not in your face types. I'm not even sure how I knew they were Christians. I wasn't a Christian yet, but I felt so sorry for them. They did not deserve how they were teated.
I personally find it hard to be a Christian in this society no matter how many Chritians there are here. That is just me. Maybe other Chritians find it easy. Maybe the statement is laughable, but it is mine and I own it and stand by it.
Regarding the "It's not easy to be Christian in this society" thing.
I think it's not easy to be any religion in this society. Every religion has its share of crazy people who give the religion (and its followers) a bad name. Every religion has its detractors.
Easier does not equal easy. I don't think the original post was ever trying to imply that being Christian was harder than being Jewish or being Muslim. Less hard does not equal not hard.
It's all well and good to occasionally point out privilege from time to time, but it seems to me that doing so in this particular instance is just fascinatingly ironic. She said it wasn't easy talking about being Christian, and by trying to point out any privilege she might have (because other religions have it harder) puts her in a position that makes it hard for her to talk about Christianity. Good game.
It might interest you to note that the state of Christianity in the US is in such a poor state that other Christian nations do consider the US to be a viable spot for Christian missionary work.
Do Muslims have a hard time? Yes. Absolutely. No doubt. Do Jews have a hard time? Yes. Absolutely. No doubt. Do Christians have a hard time? Yes. Absolutely. No doubt.
And about the two Christian girls, I am ashamed to say that for the most part I too shunned and ignored them. I had had enough ridicule in my life from being fat. I wasn't about to bring any more ridicule upon myself by associating with the two Chritians.
Lindsay,
You wrote, "I think it's not easy to be any religion in this society. Every religion has its share of crazy people who give the religion (and its followers) a bad name. Every religion has its detractors."
But see, the thing about privilege is that every religion is not the majority religion. Every religion doesn't have what the power that Christianity--and Christians--have in the US. And that makes a difference. All things are not equal, and to acknowledge those nuances isn't the same thing as saying, "No, you aren't suffering." It's just putting that suffering into some sort of context.
And Kat seemed genuinely confused about why it might be so hard to be Christian--and why so many non-Christians have reacted badly to her faith. And I'm here saying statements like this one is why--or at least part of why.
Privilege comes from power. And it's largely invisible to those who have it.
Kat's examples of suffering were deeply personal, and I respect that. I do.
But privilege is this huge crushing weight that comes on top of personal issues.
And in offering up the idea of privilege, my point is to say that it's statements like the one Kat made about it being hard to be Christian--statements that don't anywhere acknowledge her privilege--that cause so many non-Christians out there (and we are, still, in the minority) to end up at odds with people like Kat.
It's not about how nice you are, but about what it feels like to have a conversation with someone who is free> to focus on the interpersonal and doesn't see what you do--doesn't see all the other shit that you, as a member of a minority with less power--get to deal with over and above the personal shit.
We've got some problems in the Fatosphere about acknowledging privilege. We've been having this discussion about race recently, and more white fat people are starting to maybe get that white fat people have privilege, which doesn't mean we don't suffer but it does mean that, for instance, it's damned annoying when we say things like, "Fat black women have it so much easier!"
So no, Lindsay, I don't think you see the irony that I do, or even see the privilege I'm talking about.
And it's not silencing Kat to talk about it, or even telling her that we don't want to hear about fat as she experiences it, through her eyes and life and faith.
It's saying that she's not going to have an easy time having this conversation with those of us from whom she feels already estranged until she gets that beginning by saying how hard it is without recognizing how hard it isn't just does not fly.
I empathize. Dealing with the uniformity of very liberal, very atheist views that dominated many of the communities and organizations I've tried to work with has been very challenging. I once did a gig at the opening of a campus women's center and was invited to schmooze afterward. Within moments I was surrounded by a conversation seething with contempt for any and all conservative views and the unmitigated idiots who held them. The assumption was that any woman educated enough to (1) be an engineering student and (2) belong to a women's a cappella group must have identical ultra-liberal views as the staff of the center. It was not an auspicious start to my relationship with an organization purporting to champion the safety, freedom, and sisterhood of all women.
Mostly I bite my tongue and try to work around it, but it's really a pity that we can't discuss religious/philosophical views without fracturing relationships. I have to disagree with nuckkingfutz--personal beliefs have everything to do with FA because they have everything to do with the person and their worldview. We're all coming at this from very different angles, and it could be really helpful to understand all those angles.
A dear friend of mine and former roommate of three years is a staunch agnostic-leaning-atheist. She approaches FA from the objectivist stance of recognizing humanity's most basic requirement--freedom to act in one's own self interest according to one's own independent rational judgment. I tend to come at it more from a "love thy neighbor as thyself" perspective. She and I have different views of the universe, but we arrive at a common ethical obligation.
I believe in a Christian God, but I recognize that I can't prove it. She does not believe in any divinity, but recognizes that she can't prove it. Each of us is good for the other; she helps me be more critical in my acceptance of Christian norms, and I help her understand a Christian culture she didn't grow up with and doesn't understand. (One of the weirdest experiences of my life was celebrating a secular Easter with my atheist friend and her atheist family.) I don't really understand why this kind of relationship is as rare as it is. So often I see atheists referring to theists (of ANY faith) as brainwashed sheep and theists referring to atheists as lawless perversions of humanity (or ignorant primitives). People have extremely complex relationships with their philosophical positions, and I think it could be extremely productive to probe into that more--but somehow it's evolved into an either/or fallacy of insane screaming matches or complete silence on the topic.
All that being said, I do think your privilege is showing a bit here. It is, at the very least, insensitive to appropriate the phrase "coming out" for this context, and I think Miriam did a good job explaining why "it's not easy" is going to get a negative reaction.
One thing that does puzzle me is your apparent aversion to the word "feminist". Do you consider feminism to be incompatible with Christianity, or is there some specific personal thing going on here?
At any rate, hang in there! You are not alone. <3
Ok so Lindsay posted pretty much everything I was going to say so I second her post lol well done Lindsay, you stated it so well! Just because someone has privilege in some area doesn't mean that things are peachy keene for them. We all go through hardships and I didn't see Kat deny that fact at all she was simply talking about her own life experience.
As a religious Jewish woman, I was not offended by her statement that it is hard to be a Christian in this society. There is a big difference between the secular Christianity that encompasses most of the country and the devout version. And, yes, it's probably easier to be a religious Christian in this country than a religious member of another religion. But, depending on your geographic location, it can be really difficult either way. Because of the way I look and act, people often assume that I'm areligious and make many disparaging remarks about religion and God, assuming that I'll agree. Because I'm young, liberal, a scientist, have blue hair and punky fashion taste, whatever reason. It's hard. So, depending on where you live, there can be an amount of secular privilege as well as Christian privilege. So, I totally get what you're saying and applaud you for saying it, even if I disagree with your politics.
if you are christian, fine. if you are republican, fine. i disagree with you on both counts, but so long as you are able to critically discuss both subjects and defend your own beliefs in a reasonable way, then i don't disrespect you on either count. i recognize that any belief system can be coopted to support immoral and damaging things, including my own liberal-atheist-humanist views. abuse of a belief doesn't mean the belief itself is inherently corrupt.
you have mentioned occasions on which people have dropped you because of your christian identity, then stated that it's hard to be a christian. it would be more accurate that it's hard to hold firm beliefs and harder still when people have strong, often painful associations with those same beliefs. i have been reviled by supposed "friends" for not kowtowing to their opinions in smaller matters than faith. sometimes this is a mark of immaturity and outright intolerance on their part (not by every single person who identifies with their personal/sexual/religious persuasion, but by THOSE PEOPLE), and other times it is a reaction against how they have been treated by others who claimed to share my position in the past. this happens with EVERYTHING, not just things like religion and sexual orientation. ANY strong personal belief might lead to one's rejection.
i'm a pk. i've read my bible through voluntarily at *least* twice. i have more than two shelves full of various texts on theology, religious history, and christian apologetics. i also don't personally believe that god exists, nor that the biblical jesus is/was a historical figure. i can't personally have anything against individuals who don't exist and never have. i can have a lot against particular positions on things that matter to me, even when these characters are invoked (with or without scriptural justification) to support them. if someone tells me "jesus says this, and i'm right because jesus says so," i could go for the precision bible-strike tactic to demonstrate that nope, jesus never said so, but i honestly wouldn't blame others for opting for the parsimonious "suck it, jesus" when they feel that "jesus" (as claimed by the other party) is clearly wrong. do i think that jesus is a bad guy for defending the adulterous woman, or treating the woman by the well as a human being, or healing those dear to roman occupiers? no. this has nothing to do with whether i think that "jesus" is an infallible, hardline-conservative authority on things like whether hallmark should be permitted to congratulate same-sex partnerships. to me, this is not an attack on every christian's faith nor on the original character jesus, but on the argumentation tactics of a specific person or subgroup.
(as an aside, what is up with the afa? how can i, on the side of having available gay hallmark greetings, be "an opponent of one-man, one-woman marriage" when i'm about to enter into one?)
holding strong opinions is never easy when others disagree with you. you have been painfully rejected for being a christian. i have been painfully rejected for both being a christian and then being an atheist, among other things. i could describe a colossal list of scars given to me by often well-intentioned members of the christian church. given the way law has been interpreted in the united states, however especially in recent years, christianity has been supported above all religions (or lacks of religion). certain brands of christianity have been sponsored above others, often favoring more damaging, freedom-limiting forms. the "christian" takeover of government must be halted. when i first started researching this, i felt very defensive on my family's behalf. over time, though, i learned to distinguish between occasional attacks on their faith and the far more common analysis of a "christian" trend which threatens the well-being of all. it is the "christians" who tend to be most vocal in politics, and these "christians" give all christians a very bad name. the best place i've found so far to discuss the differences is the dark_christian community on livejournal.com. for ease of reference, "dominionist christianity" and "dominionism" are typically used in place of mere (heh) "christianity."
This is why you can't make posts like this. The minute you say something all the rest jump out of the woodwork to compete in the oppression olympics. You can't say you have it hard, I have it harder. But I have it worse than you. It goes on and on forever. I actually feel for you becayse not only can't you win, you can't even tie or put up a good showing.
Okay, getting the easy stuff out of the way first.
"Fat Acceptance" said: The minute you say something all the rest jump out of the woodwork to compete in the oppression olympics.
That right there? That? Totally unhelpful. And also not, IMHO, what's going on here. Oh, and for anyone interested, this person has been making the rounds and saying equally unhelpful things in other blogs. Just a heads up.
Miriam said: All things are not equal, and to acknowledge those nuances isn't the same thing as saying, "No, you aren't suffering." It's just putting that suffering into some sort of context.
But to what end? In what way is that productive in this specific instance? Yes, Kat can now say, "Well, it's hard to be Christian, but at least it's not as bad as being Muslim or Jewish". And that's supposed to help her resolve this current issue she's dealing with... how? Your making comparisons of how other groups have it harder is only productive to your goals. Here's a heads up: if you're online, if you have a roof over your head, if you can afford a computer, if you can walk on two legs, you have it better than a whole lot of other people out there. So if you make a post about how you were out walking and you hurt your ankle and you're not sure what's exactly wrong with it, how much do you think it's going to help you if i step in and say, "at least you can walk at all - how about you keep your able-bodied privilege in mind?"
It's not helpful at all. If Kat had made a post saying something like "Christians have it so much harder than ___", or "Well, i may be Christian, but at least i'm not this other religion", then i'd be with you all the way. But in this context? It's ridiculous.
miriam said: Privilege comes from power. And it's largely invisible to those who have it.
Is it? Are you sure? Have you asked all of them? Have you asked Kat if she were aware of her Christian privilege? Maybe that'd be a good idea.
Kat, if i'm overstepping my bounds, please let me know.
miriam said: It's not about how nice you are, but about what it feels like to have a conversation with someone who is free> to focus on the interpersonal and doesn't see what you do--doesn't see all the other shit that you, as a member of a minority with less power--get to deal with over and above the personal shit.
Yes, i'm well aware of that, thank you. Literally, i am painfully aware of it, as a chronic pain sufferer. I'm aware of how it stings to have people around me talking about transitory health issues, about exercise they enjoy, about all sorts of things - and it's so remarkably easy to assume that they take it for granted, just because they aren't mentioning just how much people like me don't get to enjoy those things. So yeah, i've felt resentment over their physical privilege from time to time, but interrupting the conversation to say "hey, at least you can regularly walk upright" isn't really conducive to anything vaguely productive. All that does is derail the conversation to fit my ends and my goals. If i want to address those issues, i am free to do them on my own time and in my own space.
miriam said: So no, Lindsay, I don't think you see the irony that I do, or even see the privilege I'm talking about.
Actually, i do see it. You have some incredibly valid points... that were entirely inappropriate to the point of the original post.
This is why you can't make posts like this. The minute you say something all the rest jump out of the woodwork to compete in the oppression olympics.
Wow, there is no lengths you will go to be utterly annoying at any FA blog that will let you speak.
To the blog owner - this individuals is a troll of the FA community and has no sympathy to our cause. Please do not encourage them by giving them free reign to speak.
Kat, I've never posted here before, so forgive me if I'm out of line. I was raised as an Episcopalian and even went to an Episcopalian high school. (It was actually a great school if you could get over the wealth issue. I was a fat (by their standards) a scholarship student, and had undiagnosed fibromyalgia and clinical depression, so I was miserable.) I studied comparative religions, and as a child, my best friend was an 80-year-old Tibetan lama. I have great respect, and no little envy, for people of great faith; however, I am an atheist.
I think that it was extremely brave of you to write this post. I, too, have "rejected" Christian friends, but not because of their Christianity. It was because they insisted that I participate in their religion (insisting that I participate in prayers, for example). I'm sorry that your friends didn't accept you as you are.
Sorry, this is kind of rambling. I just wanted to say that I respect your decision to "come out" and hope that the reaction is not as bad as you seem to have feared it might be.
P.S. I'd almost kill for that Balenciaga hat and your furkids are gorgeous.
I sincerely thank all of you for your comments. And Lindsay you are not out of bounds as far as I am concerned. I am no doubt out of my league when it comes to arguing or debating certain topics.
I admit prvilege. How can I not? I am white, married to a white man and live in society that generally accepts my spiritual point of view. And I'm sure I don't realize just how privileged I am.
However, my life has been very painful in many ways. I have lived my life trying to survive mental illness...trying not kill myself as my father did.
I have struggled with finances in a way that most people I knew at the time never did. Yes, even then I was privileged because I had a home, two parents, a dad that worked, food and transportation.
My first car was an old Dodge Dart....like a 1962 model. My second car was an used Pinto. After graduating from college I graduated up to a Corolla with no air and no radio.
When my dad left my mom, my mom and I were on food stamps and a church brought us food. My mom and I lived in 200 square feet. We slept in twin beds in the dining room. It was all we could afford to heat.
I lived in fear and still live in fear of ending up on the streets. My current fear is irrational, but it is real. It is based on those years of living on the edge of being homeless.
I miraculously finished college in about 7 years. I had loans and grants and worked. Yes, I was and am privileged, but it sure didn't feel like it at the time. I have wroked very hard to get to the place of sanity and financial security that I currently am.
I went to grad school in social work because I wanted to help the less privileged. That is what is in my heart....to help.
As a social worker I went into the projects. I know that life is very difficult for some. I tried my hardest to help, to encourage and comfort those that I came into contact with.
That is also what is in my heart here in the Fatosphere. I want to comfort and encourage the folks who are hurting due to being fat in a Fat Hating world. I want to tell my stories. I want to vent when I need to vent. I have no other agenda.
I appreciate the work of feminists. Someone asked why I hesitated to call myself a feminist back when I really was one. I don't really know. I guess I didn't like labels at the time.
And I called this coming out because it was a very personal revelation of a hidden yet critical part of myself and my life. It was undertaken with dread, after much thought, and realizing that it could have some unwelcome consequences...that I could get hurt, rejected or end up feeling really stupid.
The only thing that has hurt a little bit is that Meowser seemed mad at me. I love ya Meowser. You make me laugh. I get you. I am also AS.
As I approach 50, I realize that it is time to walk the walk of true self-acceptance and quit being afraid of people and what they think of me. I simply can't hide and try to please until the day I drop dead.
I am an artistic person. I'm not a debator or a person who can hang on to facts or think clearly all the time. It takes me hours and hours to write a post most of the time. I don't know how to discuss some of the things that have come up here. I didn't know we had a troll. I wasn't giving anybody encouragement or a free reign.
The troll did say something interesting though. He/she said I couldn't win. I don't want to win anything. I don't see it as a fight. I feel I'm among people of my own kind here as far as painful difficult life experiences as a fat person or eating disordered person.
I was just saying some things that I get really tired of and that bug me. I was revealing a very personal part of myself that seems to be very different from others in the Fatosphere. I wasn't trying to fight about anything. I am just wanting to be me.
I'm really still not sure if the Fatosphere wants a voice that isn't feminist. I want to help the cause...to ease the pain...to offer comfort and encouragement. Maybe that isn't enough.
I'm confused by you saying that you aren't a feminist. What does this mean? Do you not believe that women deserve equal rights in society? Do you not think that they deserve to be protected from harrassment or rape or discrimination?
What does it mean, when you say you aren't a feminist?
Feminism encompassess a gazillion ideas and beliefs many of which I disagree with. And you really don't want to know which of those beliefs I disagree with. That is not what my blog is for and I'm not going to get into it.
I don't have to be a feminist to be a woman of value do I? I want to encourage and comfort women...all women...of all races, sizes, religious beliefs, and political beliefs. I care about women. I don't have to call myself a feminist to care.
Hi Kate217. Nice to meet you and thanks for commenting. Yes, I LOVE my furbabies. I have new one I'm going to post about...a rescue. I don't have any good photos of her yet though.
Yes, I loved that hat. Sometimes I regret selling it, but it found a good home in Madrid, Spain. I have a post about it somewhere in my blog you can read:)
Anybody heard of Amy Carmichael? She worked in India rescuing little girls from a life of prostitution before Mother Teresa arrived on the scene.
These women are my heros. They gave their lives away in service to women and children. I can't say for sure, but I doubt if either of them would have called themselves a feminist. So what? Would their lives have been judged worthless and wasted just becasue they weren't feminists? I don't think so. Sorry God, but these women had more balls than I do. I'm way too selfish to give my life away like they did.
I don't want feminists to go away. I don't hate feminists. What feminists do is valuable and necessary. I'm just not one.
Hiya, never commented here, but I just want to say that I really like this post. I would hope that the fatosphere wouldn't reject you for your beliefs. They accept thin (even REALLY thin) people, don't they? :)
I'm a Christian myself, but I'm leaning more towards being liberal and I do identify as a feminist.
I've never encountered much difficulty because of my beliefs, but most of my friends are fellow Christians, who, even though they may be more conservative, are okay with my liberal tendencies. And I'm young and haven't experienced the world that much too
But yeah, this is a great post. It's nice to see fellow Christians 'round these parts!
Hi Margaret:) Thanks for commenting.
I still have liberal tendencies too. I really really like liberals. I just disagree with them...sometimes strongly...on some issues.
One thing I had to face about myself when I came out of liberalism and became a Christian was the fact that I looked down on Chritians and pre-judged them. I was very open minded about everything and everybody else...but not Christians.
Christians were just a bunch of stupid people who were afraid to consider other ideas and ways of looking at the world. I hated them. I had to really humble myself when I had this God experience. It wasn't easy to be "one of them". I was very prideful. It took at least two years for me to let go of some of my more extreme liberal views.
Being a Christian isn't easy for me. Sometimes it is very lonely because I have this odd background...being raised in the Bible Belt where EVERYBODY went to church and having had this very liberal time in my life. I don't fit in with liberals and I don't fit in with the folks that have never ever been liberal. And I wasn't a little liberal. I was very liberal.
I mean ladies and gents...I went with a female friend to the local gay bar....in the early 80's in a part of the country where that kinda thing just might get you killed. My friend knew some gay guys and had been there before.
It was a gay bar for men...there were no gay bars for women. We were the only two women there except for the drag queens who had just finished a contest. A couple of our guy friends took us. We were all straight. (My female friend did later go through a bisexual period. She never hit on me though).
So here we were drinking and having a good time. My friend asked me to dance. We had known each other our entire lives. I knew she was rowdy and was always pushing the envelope. I totally trusted her though. So I did.
We were dancing like crazy at a gay bar! It was so fun. We could shake it all we wanted and nobody was going to hit on us! She was a TON of fun that girl. She was the only fiercely strong Democrat I knew...she still is.
And like Kathy Griffin...I loved my gays. One of my best friends was a gay guy. I went through the whole thing with him. He called me one night crying, telling me that he thought he was gay. I went through the whole thing with him over the next few years.
He was a few years younger than me and I loved him with my whole heart. He is the friend who rejected me after my conversion. It killed me.
Well, it's late and I'm rambling. Thanks for coming by:)
My guess is that you won't post this, but I hope you will read it, and so I thought I'd direct you to a link that would give you some background on why asking, "Why does everybody hate Jesus?" is so very problematic and speaks of a lot of unexamined privilege on your part that is almost certainly coming into play and influencing how non-Christians respond to you and your expressions of faith both in and out of the Fatosphere.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_jesu3.htm
http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p122a4p2.htm
http://www.christiantoday.com/article/evangelical.leaders.jews.need.jesus.christ/17630.htm
When you describe "everybody" as "hating Jesus," your rhetoric echoes that which is responsible for hundreds of years of violent antisemitism.
Beyond that, you also set up as enemies all those who do not believe as fervently as you do in Jesus by not allowing for something other than love or hate (something more neutral, like a lack of belief in Jesus as anything other than a man).
So long as you cannot speak of your faith without devolving into polemical statements that fail to acknowledge history or the fact that, as a Christian, you're speaking as a member of the majority whose views and policies are reflected in every branch of the US government, you're going to find it difficult to find allies among many of us on the Left, and it won't be because we hate Jesus.
Miriam,
I don't mind publishing your comment:)
I'm not sure if I can respond very well to your comments, but I want to try. Anything I say is couched in ultimate repect for you as a person and I in no way mean to upset or offend you or seem insensitive.
I can only speak for myself here. I'm sure there are many other Christians that could better discuss this with you.
The thing about Jesus....even if He is just a fairy tale, a historical figure, or if the stories in the Bible are only partially true and have lost something in traslation or in the passage of time, he was said to be a man of love, compassion and mercy. He cried, He had a mom. He had siblings. He ate. He slept. He suffered a horrible death that saddened and devastated many. I don't really care who was "responsible" for His death. I don't even think that matters a whole lot...at least not to me.
I totally acknowledge that throughout history it mattered a lot to others and that the Jewish people have suffered at the hands of Christians because of it. I wish I could take away all of the pain that Chritians have caused the Jewish people. Back to Jesus.
Whether He was the Messiah or not, doesn't He deserve repect and compassion and mercy for being a human being that tried very hard to be a good person? Even if He was just a Jewish man who was a little crazy and caused some trouble, doesn't He deserve respect for all the good things He did. Doesn't He deserve compassion for the pain He suffered when He died. Doesn't His mom deserve sympathy for losing a beloved son?
I would hate to have had such a good son and be able to look into the future and see folks using His name so flippantly and with such hatred. Maybe my son was a little crazy. Maybe He caused a lot of trouble with the establishment. Maybe He got himself thrown into jail. But He would still be my son and I would hope that His memory could be treated with basic dignity and respect. That is what any mom would want.
I just care about Jesus and His pain. I wish I could have been there to hand Him a Kleenex when He cried. I just respect Him for the good person that he was. I hate to see Him being picked on more than other historical religious figures because of what humans have done with His story and His life.
He has become this caricature that it is popular to hate. No other historically religious figure is so abhored and degraded. When someone is so attacked and mistreated I tend to want to defend them. I have always been for the underdog. Jesus might not seem like an underdog, but it is how I see Him. I see Him like I see everybody, as a person who deserves basic dignity and respect. He personally never hurt anybody. People have been hurt in His name, but He didn't do it. Hate the insitution but don't hate and disrepect the man.
As far as displacement/replacement theory...I don't buy it. It has never been part of my beliefs. I am sorry that the belief is so widespread. I think it is arrogant and wrong. I feel totally humbled and grateful that Jesus included the gentiles in this thing, but we in no way displace Jewish people as God's beloved chosen ones.
I have paid for the flight of a displaced Jewish person to go back to Israel. A Messianic Jewish group holds services in the church I attend. I support a Christian organization who does a lot of work in Israel. The organization is run by a Messianic Jewish woman.
I have been to Israel. I was 33. I miss it. It is a beautiful place. I visited the Yad Vashem. It was very sad and disturbing. We hope to take our daughter to Israel as soon as we can afford it.
You know I'm just a counrty bumpkin who happened to go to college and have my view of the world opened up. I am just who I am. I am not really looking for allies on the left or the right. I just want to be me without feeling disrepsected or rejected because my views outside of FA don't line up with the majority.
I don't know if I've made a bit of sense. After this commenting is finished, I don't plan to ever make this kind of post again. I really and truly needed to come out though. I'll repear that coming out is never easy.
I appreciate those of you who support me(always and especially you Vesta...thank you for always taking me just as I am). And I appreciate those of you who are holding my feet to the fire. You make me question myself and do good things for my aging brain. I sincerely like and need to examine my beliefs from time to time.
I am a Christan (I describe myself as a follower of the teachings of Jesus) and also a leftist. I know what it's like to be written off or to have my contributions to the movement belittled because of my beliefs. But I also realize that all that hardly registers compared to the anti-Semitism that still exists in this country; furthermore, my SO is a Muslim, and the comments that have got back to me on that score have been far more hurtful that anything I've ever encountered as a Christian.
I am confused by the fact that you eschew the term "feminist". Feminism doesn't have to mean anything other than an embrace of the full personhood of women. Yes, that does mean that you may have to reconsider the implications of woman having a full right to her own agency--including the fact that government doesn't have the right to legislate morality for us. But growing in faith and growing intellectually is not meant to be comfortable. Jesus was a radical feminist for his times. Jesus was a radical in more ways that most Christians can imagine.
But mostly I want to echo the suggestion that it is not "Christian" but "conservative" that raises hackles. The cynical, reactionary politics of the fundamental and Neo-Con right defy the teachings of Jesus. Jesus was an advocate for the poor, a voice for the voiceless--do you really think it's possible to gut social programs in his name? Jesus kicked the moneychangers out of the Temple--do you really think he smiles down upon the hegemony of big business in this country? Jesus asked his followers to forsake the comforts of this world in order to follow him--do you really think that by his grace your taxes will be cut?
I take it personally because the neo-con right plays good people like my mother, for example, like suckers. She is a wonderfully kind Christian woman who lacks the capacity for critical thinking due to her sheltered upbringing and education. She hates guns and violence, is compassionate toward the underprivileged, and I'd like to believe that she doesn't really want to deny me federal assistance for my education. I'd also like to believe that she doesn't think I am a dumb whore who needs the government legislate my morality for me. But she is a single-issue voter on the topic of abortion. What she doesn't realize is that the right doesn't really want Roe v. Wade overturned--that is the one thing that galvanizes their voters to support an otherwise unpalatable platform. I would strongly encourage you to rethink the relationship between your faith and your politics.
Thank you for feeling free enough to be yourself and not apologize for those beliefs. I mean that wholeheartedly.
I know a few commenters were questioning your exclusion from being a feminist...if you aren't, you aren't, and from my point of view, that's unfortunate, but if that's who you are, then okay. The only disconnect I see here is this: You are a fat acceptance activist, probably for many reasons, but fat acceptance has a distinct parallel with feminism: accepting and embracing who you are, regardless of how others classify and denigrate you and allege there are inherent qualities that render you incapable of doing things "right" or "well." Forgive me for using this term a bit loosely, but it seems hypocritical that you so adamantly refuse to identify as a feminist when you author a fat acceptance blog. I'm sure other commenters went into greater detail than I, but it seems that if you truly cared about yourself and/or other people, you wouldn't consider your sex to make you innately inferior to men.
Cat,
I in no way consider myself innately inferior to men. Well, except when eating the same amount of food over the same period of time and losing half the weight of said man...you know, when on a diet. Now that used to make me really mad.
You said, "Forgive me for using this term a bit loosely, but it seems hypocritical that you so adamantly refuse to identify as a feminist when you author a fat acceptance blog".
So can I not author a FA blog if I don't label myself a feminist? Do I have to be a card carrying feminist in order to help the movement or author and publish my own damned blog?? PLEASE don't read me if you don't like what I say or think me unfit to be a part of the FA movement.
I was blogging about my experience as a fat person before I had ever heard of the Fatosphere or Fat Acceptance.
I find it hypocritical of some feminists and liberals to say that they are open-minded and caring of all women when it just ain't so. I sure ain't feelin it from some of you.
I'm fat just like you and hate all the hell that entails when living in this society/world. I can agree to disagree...can you?
Then again, maybe I'm more like Kate's mom and should just stay out of it....tyou know, the whole FA movement thing. Kate describes her mom as "a wonderfully kind Christian woman who lacks the capacity for critical thinking". Yeah, Maybe that's it. I'm too old and dumb to be of value here.
If you have a Bible laying around somewhere you might want to take a look at Proverbs. It makes a statement something like this...There is more hope for a fool than a man who is wise in his own eyes.
Kate describes her mom as "a wonderfully kind Christian woman who lacks the capacity for critical thinking". Yeah, Maybe that's it. I'm too old and dumb to be of value here.
I sincerely apologise if that's how my comment about my mum came across to you. I would never suggest such a thing and am mortified if I made you feel bad about yourself. My comment was meant to illustrate one of my problems with the right-wing Republican party, not as an ad-hominem attack.
Ah, Kate. Sweetie I am sorry if I hurt you in any way. I understood what you meant. I overeacted. But you know, I AM getting kinda old. I'm NOT a critical thinker. I'm an artist at heart. I can't toss around concepts and ideas like so many of you young folks can. Makes my brain hurt.
To be entirely and completely honest, I just had to do this....say what I said in this post. I was being ashamed of my faith. The growing conviction I felt at my cowardice simply became to much to bear.
If I believe what I believe then I need to believe it regardless of the consequences. I have to be strong. I was not being strong by hiding my faith. And maybe I'm not being strong by leaving, but I just think it is the right time.
The only thing that has hurt a little bit is that Meowser seemed mad at me. I love ya Meowser. You make me laugh. I get you. I am also AS.
Awww. I wasn't mad at you, Kat. I was just a little puzzled that you would insist that people on the Fatosphere "hate[d] Jesus," when I'd never, ever experienced any feeling even close to that myself or witnessed anyone else on the 'Sphere ever expressing it. (And if anyone ever expressed admiration for Kathy Griffin's "Suck it, Jesus," it was exactly in the way that I said earlier, that they appreciated her deflating the pomposity expressed publicly by those who thought they won awards, games, etc. because God or Jesus "favored" them over their opponents.)
It sounds like you had some friends who were real brass-plated jerks. I don't doubt that there are plenty of smug liberal atheists out there who think anyone who believes in any kind of god or gods is lacking in maturity and judgment, that only atheists are grownups and anyone else is just a giant child who believes in a "sky daddy" and as such is an inadvertent and unthinking tool of the antiwoman, racist, and antigay right. I certainly have seen that POV advanced a lot on lefty blogs (although not as much on the ones I tend to frequent), which really chaps my hide. I would agree that people don't make a great case for themselves as "more open-minded" when they dismiss all "believers" as being much dumber and more amoral than themselves and don't even bother considering that there are many god concepts other than "sky daddy" that an intelligent person could buy into, even if they themselves chose not to.
But you know, if you think being Christian is lonely, try being a witch (Wiccan) sometime. Especially a monogamous one. You get it from all sides.
P.S. I have only one "requirement" for a fat acceptance/fat rights activist -- that s/he believe in equal rights for fat people. However, I do gather that the Fatosphere -- which is but one corner of fat acceptance/fat right -- does tend to lean towards the leftist/feminist side of things. That means people will question your privilege if you leave yourself open to that, and so will all of us be questioned that way, including me. I gather you are going to cease to participate, which is too bad. I'll miss you, and I don't think the vast majority of us would have requested that you withdraw your blog just because of your politics.
Andee (Meowser)
Meowser,
Thank you for commenting again. So glad you weren't mad. I truly love your writing and humor. Only my husband...and sometimes my increasingly humorous daughter can make me laugh like you do. A few comedians like Kathy Griffin can make me laugh pretty good.
Long, long, long ago in the early days of SNL Steve Martin made me laugh...do you remember the Norge repairman? Argggg. Our family had a Norge. It went great with my Dodge Dart. Loved Gilda. Loved the Loud Family and the Scared family. I'm rambling.
I do love humor though...to laugh...I've laughed so very little in my life due to depression. I'm not very funny myself most of the time(I make pathetic attempts)....dead serious type...maybe part of AS.
Sometimes your descriptions of things have just had me doubled over in delighted laughter. I thank you for that. It is a real gift.
When I was talking about people hating Jesus I was just getting all wound up and generalizing to all of society. I didn't really mean here in the Fatosphere specifically. I don't recall any incidents either. Sorry for that misunderstanding.
I really really do have trouble with my brain and saying exactly what I mean sometimes. I can understand and grasp way more than I can convey. I never fail to make myself sound like a simpleton because I tend to leave out whole sections of my thought process and find it difficult to connect things. That is why it is so hard for me to write or talk to people in person. I just can't get it out.
Yeah, I think I'll call it quits for now. I'll send fatfu a formal request here in a couple of days. Give folks a chance for last comments and such.
I'm not going away mad or hurt. I'm a little tired mostly. I just think it is time I move on. It has been an honor and a thrill be be a small part of something so important. I wish everybody great success with their personal battles of self/size acceptance. I wish great success to the Fatosphere and the entire FA movement as well. I'll be reading when I can.
And Meowser, I'm sorry you are lonely sometimes. Lonliness is no fun.
I composed a really long comment that just seemed less and less necessary the longer I worked on it, so I'm just going to say this instead: as a liberal, feminist Wiccan, I think it's brave of you to come out as Christian and conservative in FA. I won't comment on the conservative angle, because I don't think that's appropriate for this blog. But I appreciate you sharing your experiences and explaining how trying to juggle your faith and your activism has been hard for you. I think it's helpful and necessary for people like you to "come out" to help people realize just how diverse each of our communities are. It's necessary for people to be honest about who they are in general. I don't think anyone should be made to feel like they have to hide part of themselves to participate in a community like FA.
I also understand (I think) why you choose not to label yourself a feminist. It's true that feminism has come to be associated with various political beliefs and issues, and I can see why you would want to avoid some of those associations. I still have kind of a knee-jerk reaction of sadness when a woman says she isn't a feminist, though. To me, it's about gender equality, period. But you've made it clear that you're not opposed to that aspect in particular. :)
Thank you, thank you, thank you Kitty. You said what I want to say. You make me feel very understood.
I take things very seriously and have been struggling with myself like you would not believe to put it all together. What you said...trying to juggle my faith and my activism....my politics has been a struggle. Yes. That's it. Whew.
I will continue to think about all the issues raised here and examine myself. There have been some things said that have humbled me and made me want to be a better person.
As far as me not labeling myself a feminist...don't be sad about it...I think I'm some kind of hybrid or something. I just don't fit anywhere really. Never have. Most likely never will.
I'll check back sometime tomorrow. It's my birthday...48...ouch. It'll be a "yay!" when I turn 50 and can get that senior discount. I LIVE for the discount. Get tired of being asked if I need the senior discount. If I look so old you have to ask...just give me the dang discount! Rambling again.
I'll be out most of the day but will publish any comments as soon as I can.
Delurking to say that I, like other commenters here, felt saddened and shamed that you apparently feel you can't identify as a feminist. All I can say is: http://tomatonation.com/?p=677.
Shamed and saddened? I don't call myself a feminist (note that i didn't say i don't CONSIDER myself one, big difference there), and i'm "shamed and saddened" on behalf of feminism and women's rights that it's being represented by people who think that a guilt trip and a link is going to suffice. I've read that article you linked, and by those standards, yes, i AM a feminist.
And you know, i have my own reasons for not calling myself a feminist, and someone giving me a link and attempting to guilt trip me about it isn't going to change my personal history and experiences that gave me the beliefs and feelings that i have about feminism. Neither Kat nor i owe our reasonings to anyone else on this planet, and your disapproval has not one whit of bearing on whether or not our thoughts and opinions on the matter are valid.
For pete's sake people, you've already bludgeoned Kat into closing up shop here... do you really feel the need to keep tossing crap at her? What on earth do you think you're going to accomplish, except perhaps give her One More Reason to dislike the movement and/or its followers?
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